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View Full Version : Clunkers for what?



Jack Pine
08-18-2009, 11:44 AM
8 of the top 10 are from foreign producers.
Only Ford Focus and Escape make the list at #3 and #7
Gov.Motors is shut out as well as Chrysler
T.

jeffintoronto
08-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Well, the Corollas sold in the US are built/assembled in the North America, ditto for the Civic, CRV, and numerous others that are on there.

F**k the big three. They deserve to be buried. I know the intent was to try to kick start GM and Chrysler in particular, but good for people for leaving them in the cold. I know it's devastating for people employed there, but the public shouldn't have to bail out companies mismanaged for decades.

I've been a GM owner since I was 16. Never again. I love their vehicles - would really like a Trailblazer, Tahoe, Silverado, or Sierra - but why should I pay for their bailout twice (once through taxes, and once directly out of my pocket to them without the gov't middleman)?

North of 8
08-18-2009, 12:37 PM
I have a Honda Civic and a Silverado. My Civic was built in the USA and the truck in Ontario. A couple years ago, Honda stated that the cars made in their US plants met or exceeded the quality of their cars built in Japan. Take the dumb big three management and the UAW out of the picture and US workers can compete with anyone.

Smada962
08-18-2009, 01:54 PM
I could not agree more with both of you

Shep
08-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Ford has not taken any bail out money, so why you would say screw them?

release
08-19-2009, 02:12 PM
Guess what guys. As it turns out the way of counting screws up the picture. Several of the top ten are acutally big three trucks, but the government counted each version of the trucks (diesel, gas, 4 WD etc as seperate models to there are actually more US vehicles than it appears any way.

Jack Pine
08-19-2009, 03:07 PM
Gov. counting is an art form,check out the hedonics in the CPI.
T.

JOCKO
08-19-2009, 10:03 PM
--- whatever happened to patriotism ??? ,,, very sad ---:-(

Jack Pine
08-20-2009, 05:14 AM
Patroitism is alive and well, but it doesn't mean you have to follow every hair-brained scheme that comes out of D.C.
T.

gdesario
08-20-2009, 08:33 AM
Our government is the reason we are in the mess we are. The people should not have to assist in any of the bailouts because CEOs are getting multi-million dollar bounses despite the company sinking into a financial grave. The banking, home and business crisis is from government policies and crooked execs.

JOCKO
08-20-2009, 08:48 AM
-------- December 7 , 1941 ---------

Jack Pine
08-20-2009, 09:27 AM
----------Sept.17th 1787------------read it

JOCKO
08-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Jack Pine ---- what happened on September 17, 1787 ??? ---- Jocko

Jack Pine
08-20-2009, 10:00 AM
The U.S.Constution written.

JOCKO
08-20-2009, 10:19 AM
Jack Pine ---- thanks ,,, I had no idea that it took over ten years after the Revolutionary War to write the Constitution ,,, and I believe the Bill of Rights came even later ,,,, I guess some things never change in Washington ???? ------ Jocko

jeffintoronto
08-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Here's the most relevant: October 24-29, 1929.
What scares the bejesus out of me is that millions of my fellow Canadians are either oblivious or in complete denial that we are on a railroad train down the same track as you folks. Somehow they think our real estate won't crash/massive correction, that the jobs will come back, and that the stock market has corrected and stabilized. Yikes!

MuskyMonk
08-20-2009, 02:45 PM
For all the anti-government, anti-bailout talk out there, I guarantee that when the history is written about this global mega-recession, people will look back at the drastic steps that the US government, Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury took and realize without that level of intervention we really would have been up the creek. I know several folks that where in the middle of this and the financial abyss they described during that timeframe was beyond comprehension. That whizzing sound we heard was the bullet passing by our heads. I know it won't change a dam thing for those that lost their jobs, savings and homes, but it was what prevented us from staring at a 20% unemployment, 10 year recovery, vs. a 10% unemployment, 2 year recovery.

Just my $.02, FWIW.

Jack Pine
08-20-2009, 02:47 PM
I really think Canada is going to come out of this mess quicker and in better shape than the U.S. Mostly because of fewer misteaks and a resourse based economy.My money is where my mouth is, most of my investements are with Canadian based companys.
T.

jeffintoronto
08-21-2009, 06:41 AM
"I know it won't change a dam thing for those that lost their jobs, savings and homes, but it was what prevented us from staring at a 20% unemployment, 10 year recovery, vs. a 10% unemployment, 2 year recovery."

Probably more like somewhere between the two. 2 years is certainly completely out of the question in the US and globally. Contrary to what the glee-spreaders are saying, the bottom hasn't been reached yet, let alone any kind of recovery. It's going to me more like minimum 5, and then the second wave will come when the boomers start wanting to retire and crash it all again.
I agree with you though that the need for the government to intervene - however stomach turning for many - was inevitable.

As for Canada, I'd get my eggs out of many of those baskets. We are only beginning to fall down the hole; only started in October last year. We have our own private version of grossly overvalued real estate in need of correction, our own version of the sub-prime debacle (and here you cannot just walk away), and our manufacturing sector is disappearing forever.

Jack Pine
08-21-2009, 07:00 AM
On the bright side,you have a very strong nat. resourse sector, your currency is in much better shape than the U.S. dollar, and in all our wisdom we are trying to re-flate the real estate bubble so we can go thru it all over again.
As far as the Clunker program the only winner I see is the Re-Po man after all the de-faults.
Thank God for divergence that's what makes markets-ain't so.
T.

jeffintoronto
08-21-2009, 07:22 AM
From coast to coast we have spent the last three months doing the same thing - artificially propping up the real estate bubble with insanely low rates of borrowing. Lenders continue to allow 0-5% down, and when interest rates climb, and housing values fall as little as 5%, all of those folks will instantly be in negative equity!

Our dollar being high compared to the US right now is absolutely killing us. Over 80% of our exports go to the US. With our dollar over 90cents to yours, that means the US can get the goods they usually get from us elsewhere for cheaper.
We are a nation that can also no longer depend on our resources, not because we don't have them, but because we make it much too costly to harness many of them. Steel is dying here, as is nickel (mines are closing down in/around Sudbury at an alarming rate). Natural gas doesn't do much good when the price is at a 7 year low. It is very expensive to extract oil from the Alberta tarsands. And, the US gov't has exercised rather prohibitive practices when it comes to our lumber.
About the best thing we have going now in terms of exportable resources is nuclear energy and unharnessed energy derived from water. We need to get cracking on some serious hydroelectric projects.


There is no doubt we are in/on the cusp of a depression. The only bright side is that after things crash, and after turning on one another at the outset, there is a chance that people may realize that a return to 'community' may provide some relief and the means to rebuild and change the way we live.