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Thread: Are there any true musky experts?

  1. #71
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    Phooie on your choice Mr. Fenner! If I was choosing an "expert" if such a person exists, a local with a good reputation who knew what he was doing would trump a great stick with no knowledge of the water any time any where in my book. To find the local you'd have to do your homework of course, not just chose anyone at random.

    The reason I'd be fishing with a guide is to learn the best spots and presentations. Obviously the person that would know that is one with intimate knowledge of the water, not someone that would go throught the same progression learning new water as I would. I know how to fish, what I would be looking for a is a shortcut to success, not reinforcement of what I already know.

    I will grant you this, a person not familiar with a body of water may bring a different skill set to the party than the local angler, perhaps a method that is more effective in the long run. But it is still location location location that catchs fish not great technique in the wrong places. If the lake is large and the best spots aren't on the map where everyone with a smattering of ability could find them, your great stick is just flailing away blindly like most everyone else. It takes TIME to learn water, not some innate ability. Learning the water is an investment in success.


  2. #72
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    Thinking back to Bobby M's Simply Fishing Musky Classic on the Big V several years ago, there were quite a few locals who are great sticks that absolutely knew what they were doing, yet a couple of unfamiliar anglers from Wisconsin (unfamiliar in the sense of not having fished this particular water as much as the locals) who won the event. More recently, one only has to look back at last year's PMTT championship to see yet another such example.

    Like I stated earlier, I've hired the good locals in earlier times, with some being contributors of Musky Hunter Magazine, and blanked - not seeing anything.

    I wouldn't limit the thinking of being with somebody on fresh water and observing them as a reinforcement of what I already know. I seriously doubt Mr. Sandy is going out there and blindly casting and relying solely on the process of elimination to figure it out. A musky is a musky is a musky and I am most certain that based on the seasonal situation, he will have a very good starting point. I would be most interested in the shortcuts he may have in what I already know as well as those other elements which I did not know.

    As stated, for me, I enjoy the journey as much as the destination. I am sure that a quality lake map, water temperature conditions, time of year and other homework investigations isn't going to place Mr. Sandy at square one. Some guides, even the good ones, get stuck with what did work when it isn't working. For me at least, I would spend a day on a fresh body of water with Mr. Sandy than any local, nor matter their reputation.

    Perhaps I am biased - I live and fish in Minnesota. If my goal was to catch a biggie, I need not travel more than 50 miles from my house. Why would I travel to Wisconsin?

    But if I did, again with my motivation of the journey being as important as the destination, the fresh perspective of such an individual would be invaluable to where I am currently at within my musky career.

    Location is certainly a prerequisite for success. But, it's presentation that seals the deal. Poor presentation in the right location is just about as good as good presentation in the wrong location.

    You can phooie on my choice all you want, but for me at least, it's the complete package - journey and destination.

    ;)

  3. #73
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    I have long believed that some of the very best comment on musky fishing and worst comment on football came from the very same person but you really had to work to understand it. Now it's right out there for the world to see!

  4. #74
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    I respect your opinion and would love to fish with your "expert" too, learning techniques and strategies from him, but in this case I guess we'll just have to agree on disagreeing. Give me the knowledgeable local.

    Was that megabucks tourney a true test of knowledge and ability with the extreme conditions you are hinting at? Or did it take out of play a lot of good spots and methods?

    Gotta go, muskies are calling. Read your response when I get back.

  5. #75
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    I can only speak easy in second hand tenure, I fished neither tournament to experience the conditions of the first, I live 10 miles away from the second.

    Perhaps Mr. Mich could give a better recount to the Bobby M's Simple Fishing Classic championship up on the Big V several years ago - he fished it. That's if, of course, time has healed this particular old wound.

    However, I do know from recounts provided onto me from various other participants that this tournament blew an unholy gale, forcing even the Ranger owners to use main gas engines with bow trolling motor usage steering's for the days leading up to the field draw down or cut-off.

    Yet, the weather effected et al, including the winners and they adapted to locations and presentations that brought them 80K in winnings and cherished hand rings of gold.

    Regarding the second tournament last year - the winners showed up the night before the final practice day before the start, never having fished Tonka, picked a weedbed at random, moved a musky.

    They started in this weedbed at the start of the PMTT championship, and caught it. On the second day, they targeted shallow slop, saw nothing, trolling motored out to the edge, observed a depression in the slop bed, casted a cowgirl, caught their second winning musky.

    I was at the awards ceremony to hear the recount live.

    Conditions during this tournament where exactly opposite of Bobby M's - flat calm, almost dead calm.

    New ranger boat and a check in their pockets...

    Oh, yea, the weather effected them too.

    Mr. Mich, please chime in on the Big V... Perhaps I missed something.

    ;)




  6. #76
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    JEM, the conditions during Bob M's tournament at Vermilion took many proven spots and techniques out of play. I fished that tournament, and had fished musky on Vermilion since 97 at that point, (true Lake X at that time)...the wind and wave condition was the worst I'd fished to that point. My catch was ZERO, but I felt as though I was in the majority of the people who fished and knew that lake. So I sucked in great company that week.

    John

  7. #77
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    In my opinion there are probably lots of experts. Experts at their home waters where they know the fishes typical habits. For instance, I would consider J. Detloff and D. Dorazio experts on the Chip. Along with several others. Would these fellas have the same success on Eagle Lake Ontario? Who knows. But, if you know a lake like the back of your hand, you have a certain level of expertise on it.

    Overall. I say he who dies with the most BIG muskies wins.

  8. #78
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    Are there any true musky experts?

    Mr. Fenner and myself began this topic on another post...but I felt it should have its own thread...so here we go.

    Dave asked me what I thought the standard is to be, to be considered an expert in the field of musky fishing. And that's truly a great question...one that has as many answers as I'm sure as posters, willing to post, but it just isn't that simple.

    There are many, many great anglers, guides and innovators in this sport. There are old timers that people adore because of their style, and way… and young guns that capture the imagination of the masses, with their flowing manes, their sexy jewelry...shiny boats and catchy phrases. But are they experts? I say no

    If you grow up in Wisconsin catch 300 dinks a year and parlay that into the national spotlight, to include stardom, reels, rods, a tall pretty blonde wife...are you an expert? Lucky as hell yes, but I say no.

    If you're a rich SOB that can fish with the best, learn from the best, and spend countless hours on the water...are you an expert? I say you're damn fortunate, but no again.

    Are you a guide in the musky rich waters on MN, where you catch 50 50"ers a year, fishing the greatest lakes with the greatest strain, during the greatest time to fish musky in MN...EVER!!! But are you an expert? NO! You're a 20 or 30 something that never knew what fishing for musky was when difficult. You're a catcherman not a fisherman...because as soon as it gets a little tough on your "pond" or your lake "X", you p!ss and moan and talk about all the pressure on "your" lake, from all the out of staters.

    Now I could go on and insult the guides turned lure makers...and the magazine owners that are TV personalities and media darlings, but insulting isn't what I'm really trying to do here. I'm friends with many that I kicked in the balls here...these are guys that I find funny and interesting. They are people that are fine husbands and fathers, and they are also great fisherman. But experts? No, No and no.

    In an era of guys getting chubbies over the next great musky dude, and mind you these are the same windsocks that loved yesterday’s hero too. I know of only one expert. A man that a fine husband, father, business owner, great musky fisherman, and friend call’s the "musky-whisperer".

    So David Fenner my one and only musky expert is Billy Sandy. If you know him or have fished with him...I'm betting you'll agree. And the standard starts there.

    Now I know that this will grow legs…with the “pointers” and “sleds” of the world wanting to take shots at me and not give their views, but understand this is my view of a question posed to me. This is my "expert"… looking forward to reading about yours.

    John

  9. #79
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    Great topic and I've enjoyed reading these posts. My own personal definition of a 'expert' would be someone that not only takes his client to the correct locations for the conditions and shows them the proper baits and techniques to catch fish, but also explains the 'whys' and 'hows'. For me those 'whys' and 'hows' are the reason I paid the $$ to fish with that person, not the actual catch itself. What I learned that day is my measurement of success and my way of deciding whether or not to use that guide again in the future. Just from my own personal experience with Bill Sandy, though he clearly had the knowledge and skill on LOTW, he did not choose to teach. Maybe he thought I was just looking for hot-spots, I don't know. I felt as though I just bank-rolled his day on the water that day, to be honest with you. That's not a slam on him but just the impression I got on that given day. Maybe he did try to teach but I was/am too dense to listen or understand? Entirely possible. The two guys that I have fished with that really clicked for me, with both the skill/knowledge and the willingness to pass it along, were Jim Saric on the Fox Chain for muskies and Chris Beeksma on Chequamagon Bay for smallies. I asked a million questions and they patiently gave me the answers to those questions. For me anyways, I guess having the knowledge but also being willing & able to share it is how I define the term 'expert'.

  10. #80
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    RE: Are there any true musky experts?

    professional or not,fishing everyday,just learning or weekend warior,you'll find one day you're a a hero one day a zero,there'll be stretches were you look like god and maybe think you are,then reality and avgs will catch up.the ability to learn from mistakes and /or tough days,adapting to changing conditions and above all learning the water intimatly you're fishing and her and the fish's habits and you'll at least some the time be an expert. most i know and respect as experts might be be considered as experts by many but would not proclaim themselves as such. they don't have to.

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